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Posts: 548
Entity: Novi Sad
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Hello EGEAns
At the 2nd e-meeting of the Organization and Strategy committee on the 23rd of March 2010, the European Geographer (EG) board has
presented a proposal for the change of the EGEA protocol. The proposal came as a result of the EG live meeting which took place in Mainz from the 6th
till the 7th of March 2010.
The proposal mainly refers to granting the EG the status of the official body and the according rights. This proposal was supported by the EG
guidelines which explain how the EG works. The proposal will be presented and voted on at the General Assembly at the AC in Romania.
EG
proposal
EG
Guidelines
Greetings from the BoE,
Claudia, Samantha, Milda, Catalina, Jelle & Slobodan
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When the cold of winter comes,
Starless night will cover day,
In the veiling of the sun,
We will walk in bitter rain,
When the seas and mountains fall,
And we come to end of days,
In the dark I hear a call,
Calling me there,
I will go there,
And back again. |
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Posts: 548
Entity: Novi Sad
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During the live meeting at the WRC, in Steinach am Brenner, Austria, the BoE has discussed the proposal and came to a positive opinion it.
We would also like to ask other EGEA’ns to share there comments with us on this forum, so feel free to comment 
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When the cold of winter comes,
Starless night will cover day,
In the veiling of the sun,
We will walk in bitter rain,
When the seas and mountains fall,
And we come to end of days,
In the dark I hear a call,
Calling me there,
I will go there,
And back again. |
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Posts: 2431
Entity: Athens
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Is there some solid argumentation, either from the magazine team or the Board of EGEA, as to why they do not join the Communication & MEDIA Committee,
where they actually fit to??
I have also read the "EG Guidelines" and could not spot any basis for this exceptionalism towards a magazine!
There's even a "Media and Communication editor" profile described there. Sharp sarcasm!
Clearly the European Magazine team cannot consist a discrete administrative body in EGEA. Such activity - editing articles
biannually or so - does not represent the core competencies of this Association and does not add up fundamentally to the Association's
functioning and management.
I fully appreciate all their efforts and achievements and I agree on a "official status," which can easily be attributed, as long as the EG team
integrates into the already-established Communication & Media Committee. Your cycle times (periodicity) do not have to match simply to co-exist! Just
cooperate there and you can enjoy all the comforts like any other EGEA Committee did to date.
Additionally, being hosted within the Communication & Media Committee can provide valuable synergies in designing and promoting the Magazine more
creatively, and will help convey the Magazine's message more accurately - which haven't been the case so far (refer here ). 
Finally, I have followed that discussion about not getting refunded for your face-to-face meetings and about not being granted places at AC & RCs. It
has dissolved all the romance about the team's altruism, but you can still claim refunds as Committee and a place at AC as Committee representative -
no pro. As to RCs, I cannot imagine that it fits you better to spend 85-95 euros on congress fees just to stage a one-day EG meeting. Not!
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♣ אאא ♠ I'm better than your ex and better than your next ♠
۩~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BriaN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~۩ |
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Posts: 2426
Entity: Bucharest
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ok. anyone else ? 
maybe someone from the EG would like to comment or give more details about their point of view? maybe some members of the committees?
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| unless you try something beyond what you have already mastered, you'll never grow! |
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Posts: 647
Entity: Poznan
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Claudya
ok. anyone else ?
maybe someone from the EG would like to comment or give more details about their point of view? maybe some members of the committees? |
I will comment later brian very uncostructive critics, what I see a huge misunderstanding of the topic and aims of The European Geographer EGEA
Magazine.
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| Everything can go forward if you have a sustain and well developed basics. Don't hesistate and do that what You want! |
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Posts: 3430
Entity: Mainz
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To the reason for becoming an official Body
The initial reason why the EG editorial board needs an official status is because the status was unclear and therefore it was not included in things
like calls for new members or the committee live meeting, obviously. And most of all the EG needs to be visible in order to be read and in order to
get everyone to know that it is appreciated to write something for it. (So that things like Brians example don’t need to happen any more.)
Clear is as well why the EG Board is not included in official documents yet: the first issue (we know as fist issue) was started up without having a
long term structure of people who take care of it behind it. As well that is the main reason, why the second magazine needed way longer then wanted to
be published again and after that it was in discussion to drop the magazine.
But since there were enough people who saw an importance for our association to have a scientific(ly) magazine, it was started again with new egeans,
who during one and a half year managed step by step to built up a structure which can insure the European Geographer to be our permanent magazine.
Being hosted within the Communication and Media Committee
was never in discussion. However there has been the idea to be included into the scientific committee. Due to some reasons like: the EG needs public
attention almost all the time and is cooperating with almost all of the other committees and has an own organisation structure within, it was decided
that it is the most fitting way to become what the EG Board proposes now: an official body with the structure the EG editorial board has developed
(and thouse are working fine) with getting the rights a committee has.
The rights and duties can be read in the proposal bobo attached in the first post!
Very important - like for committees - is to be present at congresses or the committee live meeting, because it benefits everybody. The EG board needs
to talk to the committees and to egeans who might want to write articles! Cooperation is needed and benefits as well the scientific committee, the
fundraising committee, the com. & Media Committee, the entity support committee. Members from the EG have spoken to almost every committee and that
has been always appreciated on both sides. So giving the EG Editorial Board that status is something which does not harm anyone but will benefit the
association in general.
And therefore we can see no real reason - but being against change - against the EG becoming officially a discrete administrative body. A discrete
body which works for the association throughout the year the EG editorial board has already been for a while now (even if it might be only very
visible to some members twice a year). The step now is “just” to it make official in the protocol and get the appreciation confirmed by all
egeans, what the EG editorial board has already built and been working with and would like to continue with!
And that is why everyone’s opinions and questions are welcome and needed here!
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Posts: 2431
Entity: Athens
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Twenty lines just to say that it "does not harm anyone" to be recognized as an administrative body.
Twenty lines and NO answer. This must be the one of the qualities to become an editor.
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♣ אאא ♠ I'm better than your ex and better than your next ♠
۩~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BriaN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~۩ |
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Posts: 2431
Entity: Athens
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Well, you cannot be a discrete administrative body, because you are not a discrete administrative body. Choose a Committee and stop manipulating
clueless people.
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♣ אאא ♠ I'm better than your ex and better than your next ♠
۩~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BriaN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~۩ |
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Posts: 3430
Entity: Mainz
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Thank you for your profound opinion Brian!
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Posts: 983
Entity: Brussel
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Some very quick comment:
Yes, the EG could fit in (some) committees. The SComm proposed the EG to become of a part (some kind of - independent - subgroup of the Scientific
Committee, which has been considered by the EG (as Vera already mentioned), an idea which I still support.
BUT: I also understand the decision the EG took on this matter.
As a result, i also support the proposal of the EG, as i believe the future co-operation between EG and committees can only benefit from it. I really
don't see the problem of getting the EG acknowledged as an offcial body. Is it the issue of giving them a place at the AC? The financial support they
would get for live meetings?
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| History doesn't tell us anything, except dates (Susan Nathan). |
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Posts: 2431
Entity: Athens
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I hardly care about their motivations (congress places, money, public recognition, etc).
Publications (magazines, annual reports, newsletter, etc) cannot become a discrete official body in a student NGO. They are always
meant as task forces/project groups/working groups/pick-a-name to fulfill their operation. Certainly they are not fundamental part of the
administration and the day-to-day management of EGEA, and therefore they fit perfectly within the Committee structure, where THEY ARE STILL
OFFICIAL!!
And as I explained above, even if this proposal only stands for AC places and travel refunds, they can still claim them within the Committee
structure. No need to resort to a bad Protocol and a bad precedent just to serve this need.
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♣ אאא ♠ I'm better than your ex and better than your next ♠
۩~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BriaN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~۩ |
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Posts: 483
Entity: Bologna
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Very funny reading that they are "manipulating" people  brian, we're an association of students not a political organisation of the mafia
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| Don't wait for the perfect moment...take the moment and make it perfect |
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Posts: 2431
Entity: Athens
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I don't understand your stupid comparison here.
And Mafia is not a political organization; they are criminals. There is a crucial difference in-between, if you may. You should know that better as
Italian.
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♣ אאא ♠ I'm better than your ex and better than your next ♠
۩~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BriaN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~۩ |
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Posts: 483
Entity: Bologna
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My stupid comparison wanted to state that I don't think that there are such kind of manipulations here as you suggest.
And of course not that mafia is a political organisation, but that political organisations are often connected to mafia...and as Italian I know that
better, exactly. But thank you anyway for the lesson
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| Don't wait for the perfect moment...take the moment and make it perfect |
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Posts: 2431
Entity: Athens
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I was referring to the EG Guidelines booklet which supposedly "supported" their decision to present this proposal. Not only it doesn't do what it
claims to do, but also it cannot make up for my lost time reading it!!!
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♣ אאא ♠ I'm better than your ex and better than your next ♠
۩~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BriaN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~۩ |
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Posts: 290
Entity: Berlin
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First of all, I am glad that people give their opinion on the proposal, but I do not appreciate people getting personal and offending others. So
let’s have a serious discussion without any offences, please!
The Editorial Board has been keen to become an official body with a clear status in order to not having to fight for every single right over and over
again in the future. We considered becoming part of the SciCom, but decided against it. We saw difficulties with being incorporated properly into a
committee and thought it would be easier and more convenient to form a separate official body whith rights and duties laid down in the protocol. We
discussed this within the board and also with other committee members, BoE, and other EGEAns and got support for our decision / proposal. However, I
also get your point and respect your objection, brian. Still, I would like to point out that we are trying to make some progress and certainly did
not have in mind to “resort to a bad Protocol” in any kind of way. The Editorial Board will further discuss the matter during a board meeting.
Meanwhile, I would like to hear other opinions on the issue, especially from the BoE and the committee members.
Regarding to the EG Guidelines, they were in the first place written for new members of the Editorial Board in order to give them an overview of how
we work internally. You do not have to read the whole guide to figure that out. I am not sure why it was published together with the proposal, but at
least it shows that we have a proper structure and are well organized.
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Posts: 2752
Entity: Bucharest
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Strider
During the live meeting at the WRC, in Steinach am Brenner, Austria, the BoE has discussed the proposal and came to a positive opinion it.
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As stated in Bobo's post, this is the official opinion of the BoE (discussed during our last live meeting)
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| Tzatza style... |
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Posts: 290
Entity: Berlin
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Hello everybody,
the Editorial Board of the European Geographer has revised the proposal to become an official body within our association.
The document includes our intentions for becoming an official body, our goals, rights and duties, and the proposal for the according protocol changes.
The proposal will be voted on at the General Assembly at the Annual Congress 2010. We give you the opportunity to comment on and discuss about the
proposal before it will be voted on.
Until August 8th, 2010 we can make adjustments to the proposal (if necessary), so please give your feedback before that date.
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Posts: 25
Entity: Torino
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I think that's a very good proposal, both we can have some advantages about these join. bye bye matt
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| matt |
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Posts: 983
Entity: Brussel
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As I've said before, I like the idea to get a more clear definition of the EG-status within EGEA, and as such, also support this proposal. Just a few
comments:
- 24.2.2.1. To publish the “European Geographer” at least once a year and giving all EGEAns the opportunity to contribute to the magazine
by expressing ideas, sharing scientific work and reporting about EGEA activities and affairs.
Here you state that there have to be at least one edition per year, what if there won't be any?
19.7. Board members, Secretariat representative(s) and Financial Control Commission representatives are omitted from the amount of participants
per entity. Regional assistants, committee speakers, the main editors of the Editorial Board of the European Geographer and the Newsletter may
also be omitted from the subscriptions per entity in case the Board decides so. Besides, two representatives from EGEA Dinosaurs & Alumni are invited
to join the annual congress.
Wouldn't it make more sense to change 'the main editors of the Editorial Board of the European Geographer' into 'the chief editor of the Editorial
Board of the European Geographer' - at least that would be more in line with the other way of representation of EGEA bodies.
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| History doesn't tell us anything, except dates (Susan Nathan). |
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Posts: 647
Entity: Poznan
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sven
As I've said before, I like the idea to get a more clear definition of the EG-status within EGEA, and as such, also support this proposal. Just a few
comments:
- 24.2.2.1. To publish the “European Geographer” at least once a year and giving all EGEAns the opportunity to contribute to the magazine
by expressing ideas, sharing scientific work and reporting about EGEA activities and affairs.
Here you state that there have to be at least one edition per year, what if there won't be any?
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That's the question for lawyers Personally I do not think it will be trouble but I
quess it's also a matter of how do You understand it. Idea of it is to put a direction of our acting. We can also write smth like in case we do not
obez the rules EG team lose smth but I do not think it is really necessary. It's like somtimes in regulations you have written everyone is obligated
to do something (for example follow sustainable development principles) but it is very ofen not written down what if not (for example has to pay
fine). i think it could stay as it is. It's only my personal opinion
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| Everything can go forward if you have a sustain and well developed basics. Don't hesistate and do that what You want! |
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Posts: 983
Entity: Brussel
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by jan pozn
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sven
As I've said before, I like the idea to get a more clear definition of the EG-status within EGEA, and as such, also support this proposal. Just a few
comments:
- 24.2.2.1. To publish the “European Geographer” at least once a year and giving all EGEAns the opportunity to contribute to the magazine
by expressing ideas, sharing scientific work and reporting about EGEA activities and affairs.
Here you state that there have to be at least one edition per year, what if there won't be any?
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That's the question for lawyers Personally I do not think it will be trouble but I
quess it's also a matter of how do You understand it. Idea of it is to put a direction of our acting. We can also write smth like in case we do not
obez the rules EG team lose smth but I do not think it is really necessary. It's like somtimes in regulations you have written everyone is obligated
to do something (for example follow sustainable development principles) but it is very ofen not written down what if not (for example has to pay
fine). i think it could stay as it is. It's only my personal opinion
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I personally don't think tthat someone will make problems if there won't be an EG, it's just something I noticed I think the second comment is more important.
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| History doesn't tell us anything, except dates (Susan Nathan). |
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Posts: 647
Entity: Poznan
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sven
I personally don't think tthat someone will make problems if there won't be an EG, it's just something I noticed I think the second comment is more important. |
Indeed and I must add I like Your comment
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| Everything can go forward if you have a sustain and well developed basics. Don't hesistate and do that what You want! |
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Posts: 290
Entity: Berlin
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sven
- 24.2.2.1. To publish the “European Geographer” at least once a year and giving all EGEAns the opportunity to contribute to the magazine
by expressing ideas, sharing scientific work and reporting about EGEA activities and affairs.
Here you state that there have to be at least one edition per year, what if there won't be any?
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You've got a point. Perhaps, we could rephrase it like this: [...] To publish the "European Geographer" on a regular basis and[...] Then there would not be any trouble if we couln't publish the EG (for whatever reason) one year.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sven
19.7. Board members, Secretariat representative(s) and Financial Control Commission representatives are omitted from the amount of participants
per entity. Regional assistants, committee speakers, the main editors of the Editorial Board of the European Geographer and the Newsletter may
also be omitted from the subscriptions per entity in case the Board decides so. Besides, two representatives from EGEA Dinosaurs & Alumni are invited
to join the annual congress.
Wouldn't it make more sense to change 'the main editors of the Editorial Board of the European Geographer' into 'the chief editor of the Editorial
Board of the European Geographer' - at least that would be more in line with the other way of representation of EGEA bodies.
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If we wrote the chief editor, we would only get one place for the Annual Congress. Yet, we think that it is fair that two speakers of the
Editorial Board (such as the chief editor and the media & communication editor) receive places for the AC as the committees do.
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Posts: 3782
Entity: Ljubljana
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Nacchi
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sven
- 24.2.2.1. To publish the “European Geographer” at least once a year and giving all EGEAns the opportunity to contribute to the magazine
by expressing ideas, sharing scientific work and reporting about EGEA activities and affairs.
Here you state that there have to be at least one edition per year, what if there won't be any?
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You've got a point. Perhaps, we could rephrase it like this: [...] To publish the "European Geographer" on a regular basis and[...] Then there would not be any trouble if we couln't publish the EG (for whatever reason) one year.
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I don't think it needs to be rephrased. First reason for that is the fact the EG has become a good (semi)scientific student paper with the ISSN
number. It also has a well organized editorship which has already successfully changed at least one "generation". So I don't know why this shouldn't
work also in future, especially if we talk all the time about increasing a scientific level in EGEA - the EG is absolutely a part of this mission And it's also a part of EGEA's Strategic Plan 2009-2012
Second reason is actually the proposal itself  If the EG has come so far (in its
scientific level/quality/development, editorship organization/structure...) that it needs to be put into the Protocol to be also formally defined as
an important part of our structure, there should be no doubt about being published at least once a year.
Besides, by following the EG and its editorship and their development trough last two years I can say the EG is certainly going to stay periodical
also in future
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| It takes great courage to speak out loud about things which on the quiet are known to everybody... |
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